J.G.’s “Trying to Catch Your Breath” Mailbag
J.G.'s Mailbag
Josh Gross Mar 2, 2007
PRIDE last weekend. The UFC on Saturday. It almost feels like too
much, doesn't it?
In the latest mailbag we start with fan reaction from Feb. 24's PRIDE card in Las Vegas. And in the second half, it's an à la carte serving of "Iceman" on the rocks, Ohio's weight restrictions, a discussion on rankings, what it'll take for wrestlers to stop their sloppy shots, and a really clutch analogy that I don't necessarily agree with.
Here are your letters …
Non-title nonsense
Having said that, how is Sakakibara going to justify Pride's champions fighting in non-title bouts after Gomi dropped his 2nd fight in his last 5, all the while retaining his belt? It's pretty much like you have to beat Gomi twice in a row to get the belt, like he gets a free "re-do".
Instead the belt should always be up for grabs whenever the champ is fighting (except for GPs, in which case the belt should go to the GP champ, but that's another issue). If Gomi or whatever champ should lose, then they can set up a rematch to regain the title, instead of a rematch to get rid of the "paper" in "paper champ". This would make for more championship bouts, which Pride notoriously lacks, as well as help to legitimize champions and keep the upper tiers of the divisions from getting stale.
I know this isn't a controversial topic as most people are already against the non-title fights, but with Gomi's loss on Saturday do you see Pride scrapping the non-title matches anytime soon? Also, how has Sakakibara justified these matches and responded to criticism of them in the past? Thanks for hearing me out. – Hef, Austin, TX
If my math is correct (and it's often not), of Wanderlei Silva (Pictures)'s 19 fights since winning the PRIDE 205-pound belt in 2001, only five were title defenses. Discard the eight bouts that were part of various Grand Prix tournaments as well as the 2002 special-rules contest against Mirko Filipovic (Pictures) and 2004 Shockwave fight with heavyweight Mark Hunt (Pictures), and you have four fights in which Silva showed up with nothing riding on the line.
In the Brazilian's case, he didn't lose a non-tourney, non-title bout to a man his size before giving up the belt to Dan Henderson (Pictures) last week.
However Takanori Gomi (Pictures) has twice, and you're right Hef, that's a serious problem. It's junk like this that makes the authority of championship belts in MMA very weak.
The way you mapped it out works fine. When a champ fights, he should risk the belt. Otherwise, we'll continue to see titleholders with shiny trinkets around their waists that possess the importance of a Wayans' brothers movie.
That said I don't see anything that will move PRIDE to change the course it set long ago. The pageantry of a PRIDE title fight is great, but maybe Takada and Sakakibara aren't so keen on sitting through national anthems every card.
Pressing the issue
Good job Gross! Why did you keep pressing the issue about Sakakibara selling Pride? Especially at an important Pride event that could make or break them in the U.S. market. First off, you knew damn well what the answer to that question was going to be. He wasn't going to say, " o yeah, I would consider selling" or " yeah I was bargaining with the competition." You really embarrassed Sakakibara publicly and he was visibly upset. If you watch the replay on "After the Bell" on the Fight Network you can see his hands shake, his voice crack and him look away as he tears up. I wouldn't be surprised if your ties with Pride dwindle much like they did with Dana and the UFC. Next time be a little more tactful and don't ask stupid questions everyone already knows the answers to just to make your self look like the big shot reporter trying to get inside info.
I felt it was the right moment to ask the question. Sakakibara could no longer avoid the rumors that have swirled around him and his company for what seemed like months. I don't believe anyone had asked him if PRIDE was for sale, particularly in a setting like that. And I had to push when he tried to dance around it the first time.
Hey, all he had to say was "PRIDE is not for sale" and it would have at least quelled rumors.
But he didn't, did he?
Rough sledding ahead
Great article regarding the fight between Wanderlei Silva (Pictures) and Dan Henderson (Pictures). I really enjoyed it.
However, one part of your article puzzled me. I've never seen any evidence, proof, or anything that even comes close to believable that PRIDE is in financial trouble, selling the business, etc. The only people I see creating and repeating these rumors are the lowbrow dumb*sses on the 'Heavyweight forum' at Sherdog. (I'm not saying they're all that way, mind you). No matter how many of them keep repeating it, that doesn't make it true.
I'm curious why you even lend credence to these rumors at all? All it does is perpetuate what is garbage to begin with. I hope to see more fact-based articles (and evidence) in the future. Thanks – Edward O'Hare
Pick a cliché because it'll probably fit. Where there's smoke, there's fire? That one would seem to work.
We know certain things to be true. PRIDE lost its Japanese television partner when Fuji TV backed out last year. It has failed to secure a new broadcast agreement. Without TV in Japan, companies like PRIDE have disappeared.
As far as the U.S. goes, PRIDE USA president Ed Fishman has publicly — and repeatedly — expressed his desire to purchase the company. Just last month there were strong … very strong … rumors that Zuffa purchased PRIDE, but apparently late money propped the company up.
In Vegas last weekend I heard a lot more anecdotal stuff suggesting PRIDE's foundation might be in deeper trouble than many of us thought. I won't go into here because I haven't proved it as fact and that wouldn't be fair to those that it pertains to, but when I heard it off-the-record from multiple sources, whom you'd think have no discernable connection, a bleak picture began to develop.
The latest I hear is that Fishman is ramping up to sue Sakakibara and PRIDE in the event they default on the agreement that put Fishman in place as PRIDE USA prez … yikes.
We shall see. I don't think we've heard the death knell yet. But it really doesn't look good right now DSE and PRIDE.
Fitting night for PRIDE and its stars
Great article. Thoughtful, historical and well-written.
I found myself feeling a little melancholy after learning that Wanderlei, Gomi and Lil Nog — all stars in the eyes of PRIDE fans, if not in the eyes of the PRIDE organization — had all been finished in their fights. Outside of rooting hard for Trigg, I just wanted good, competitive fights. But there is something a little sad about how the fortunes of PRIDE as an organization seemed to be reflected in the fortunes of some of its most loved fighters on fight night.
"Ah, but we'll always have Sakurai ..."
Life is truly stranger, and richer, than fiction. What a great time to be a fan of this sport!
Keep up the good work – dvd
Nothing is guaranteed … in sports or in life. But you're right: It did seem like there was some odd connection between the upheaval in the ring and the chaos surrounding the promotion. Glad I'm not the only one that picked up on that.
What it's really about …
Your last article "Chaotic Time for PRIDE Culminates in Night of Upsets" focused a lot on how the upsets could possibly affect Pride as a business. I appreciate the argument — with two of Pride's biggest names suffering losses last night, one could conclude that Pride is screwed now. But I'm a huge fan of MMA and I came away thinking that was an awesome show — one of the best Pride events I've seen. In the end it should be about the fighters and the performance they bring to the show. It should be about champions wanting to fight the best competition. It should not be about one organization trying to protect their big name fighters by feeding them chumps. If someone comes in and delivers an upset or two like we saw last night, great! That will happen eventually no matter the organization. Give the former champions a chance for redemption and let them go at it again. And if again they lose — well then there will be no denying now that there's a new big name to promote. – Jonah, Honolulu, HI
Now why is that so hard for others to see? (BTW, I don't think I was overly harping on the upset factor as it pertained to PRIDE's business. Any promoter banking on a result for future business is going to have more than its fair share of disappointments. This should always be known as the Joe Silva Rule.)
Second chance to make a huge impression
Three fights come to mind as the most exciting I have seen in this last year:
Rush destroying Hughes.
Silva destroying Franklin.
And now the Diaz Gomi fight. Awesome, just an awesome fight!!!! I have always been a big Diaz fan and think his personality is as interesting as his fighting. The UFC made a mistake by cutting him loose. As young as he is, he will get better in the future, and even if he is never champ, he will always be an exciting fighter to watch.
The UFC seems to have two things they let fighters do. Either you are hot and on the road to challenge the title RIGHT NOW, or you are relegated to a gate keeper. If you don't fit those two molds, you are dumped.
I don't agree with this approach and think guys like Diaz and Karo are exciting even if they never make a run for the title. The UFC spends a lot of time trying to find exciting new talent, yet they are so fickle that if fighter loses a couple in a row, they are no longer title contenders and so they are dumped.
Me? I am happy the UFC dumped Diaz. The Gomi fight would have never happened otherwise.
That was an awesome fight. – No Name Given
I'm a big "winning matters" guy. Considering this sport can be so damn demanding and the slightest mistake can cost a fighter, there has to be some slack.
Yes Diaz has five losses, but he's only 23! By the time he's 27 he may have 10 L's, yet that might be when he's ready to be a major champion.
With no real amateur mixed martial arts in the U.S., fighters are baptized under fire. And so a loss here or there really shouldn't be too penal, particularly if they're as exciting as the guys you mentioned.
(And you're right: it was a great fight to watch.)
Screemy Meemy
Something needs to be said about this: PRIDE's screaming lady is absolutely annoying! Please put the word out that this stuff needs to go. It doesn't translate well to the US audience. Other than that — Pride 33 rocked!! One of the best MMA shows I've seen. – Jonah, Honolulu, HI
It's weird. In Japan, inside a giant building, the whole screaming lady thing seems to work. Inside Thomas & Mack I couldn't cover my ears fast enough. Just one nuance that works overseas, but not here — for me at least.
In the latest mailbag we start with fan reaction from Feb. 24's PRIDE card in Las Vegas. And in the second half, it's an à la carte serving of "Iceman" on the rocks, Ohio's weight restrictions, a discussion on rankings, what it'll take for wrestlers to stop their sloppy shots, and a really clutch analogy that I don't necessarily agree with.
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Non-title nonsense
I know that Pride gets a lot criticism for non-title fights,
among other things, but everyone kind of just puts up with Pride's
shenanigans (besides FujiTV) because they make up for it with a lot
of quality fights, talent, and tournaments.
Having said that, how is Sakakibara going to justify Pride's champions fighting in non-title bouts after Gomi dropped his 2nd fight in his last 5, all the while retaining his belt? It's pretty much like you have to beat Gomi twice in a row to get the belt, like he gets a free "re-do".
Instead the belt should always be up for grabs whenever the champ is fighting (except for GPs, in which case the belt should go to the GP champ, but that's another issue). If Gomi or whatever champ should lose, then they can set up a rematch to regain the title, instead of a rematch to get rid of the "paper" in "paper champ". This would make for more championship bouts, which Pride notoriously lacks, as well as help to legitimize champions and keep the upper tiers of the divisions from getting stale.
I know this isn't a controversial topic as most people are already against the non-title fights, but with Gomi's loss on Saturday do you see Pride scrapping the non-title matches anytime soon? Also, how has Sakakibara justified these matches and responded to criticism of them in the past? Thanks for hearing me out. – Hef, Austin, TX
If my math is correct (and it's often not), of Wanderlei Silva (Pictures)'s 19 fights since winning the PRIDE 205-pound belt in 2001, only five were title defenses. Discard the eight bouts that were part of various Grand Prix tournaments as well as the 2002 special-rules contest against Mirko Filipovic (Pictures) and 2004 Shockwave fight with heavyweight Mark Hunt (Pictures), and you have four fights in which Silva showed up with nothing riding on the line.
In the Brazilian's case, he didn't lose a non-tourney, non-title bout to a man his size before giving up the belt to Dan Henderson (Pictures) last week.
However Takanori Gomi (Pictures) has twice, and you're right Hef, that's a serious problem. It's junk like this that makes the authority of championship belts in MMA very weak.
The way you mapped it out works fine. When a champ fights, he should risk the belt. Otherwise, we'll continue to see titleholders with shiny trinkets around their waists that possess the importance of a Wayans' brothers movie.
That said I don't see anything that will move PRIDE to change the course it set long ago. The pageantry of a PRIDE title fight is great, but maybe Takada and Sakakibara aren't so keen on sitting through national anthems every card.
Pressing the issue
Good job Gross! Why did you keep pressing the issue about Sakakibara selling Pride? Especially at an important Pride event that could make or break them in the U.S. market. First off, you knew damn well what the answer to that question was going to be. He wasn't going to say, " o yeah, I would consider selling" or " yeah I was bargaining with the competition." You really embarrassed Sakakibara publicly and he was visibly upset. If you watch the replay on "After the Bell" on the Fight Network you can see his hands shake, his voice crack and him look away as he tears up. I wouldn't be surprised if your ties with Pride dwindle much like they did with Dana and the UFC. Next time be a little more tactful and don't ask stupid questions everyone already knows the answers to just to make your self look like the big shot reporter trying to get inside info.
I felt it was the right moment to ask the question. Sakakibara could no longer avoid the rumors that have swirled around him and his company for what seemed like months. I don't believe anyone had asked him if PRIDE was for sale, particularly in a setting like that. And I had to push when he tried to dance around it the first time.
Hey, all he had to say was "PRIDE is not for sale" and it would have at least quelled rumors.
But he didn't, did he?
Rough sledding ahead
Great article regarding the fight between Wanderlei Silva (Pictures) and Dan Henderson (Pictures). I really enjoyed it.
However, one part of your article puzzled me. I've never seen any evidence, proof, or anything that even comes close to believable that PRIDE is in financial trouble, selling the business, etc. The only people I see creating and repeating these rumors are the lowbrow dumb*sses on the 'Heavyweight forum' at Sherdog. (I'm not saying they're all that way, mind you). No matter how many of them keep repeating it, that doesn't make it true.
I'm curious why you even lend credence to these rumors at all? All it does is perpetuate what is garbage to begin with. I hope to see more fact-based articles (and evidence) in the future. Thanks – Edward O'Hare
Pick a cliché because it'll probably fit. Where there's smoke, there's fire? That one would seem to work.
We know certain things to be true. PRIDE lost its Japanese television partner when Fuji TV backed out last year. It has failed to secure a new broadcast agreement. Without TV in Japan, companies like PRIDE have disappeared.
As far as the U.S. goes, PRIDE USA president Ed Fishman has publicly — and repeatedly — expressed his desire to purchase the company. Just last month there were strong … very strong … rumors that Zuffa purchased PRIDE, but apparently late money propped the company up.
In Vegas last weekend I heard a lot more anecdotal stuff suggesting PRIDE's foundation might be in deeper trouble than many of us thought. I won't go into here because I haven't proved it as fact and that wouldn't be fair to those that it pertains to, but when I heard it off-the-record from multiple sources, whom you'd think have no discernable connection, a bleak picture began to develop.
The latest I hear is that Fishman is ramping up to sue Sakakibara and PRIDE in the event they default on the agreement that put Fishman in place as PRIDE USA prez … yikes.
We shall see. I don't think we've heard the death knell yet. But it really doesn't look good right now DSE and PRIDE.
Fitting night for PRIDE and its stars
Great article. Thoughtful, historical and well-written.
I found myself feeling a little melancholy after learning that Wanderlei, Gomi and Lil Nog — all stars in the eyes of PRIDE fans, if not in the eyes of the PRIDE organization — had all been finished in their fights. Outside of rooting hard for Trigg, I just wanted good, competitive fights. But there is something a little sad about how the fortunes of PRIDE as an organization seemed to be reflected in the fortunes of some of its most loved fighters on fight night.
"Ah, but we'll always have Sakurai ..."
Life is truly stranger, and richer, than fiction. What a great time to be a fan of this sport!
Keep up the good work – dvd
Nothing is guaranteed … in sports or in life. But you're right: It did seem like there was some odd connection between the upheaval in the ring and the chaos surrounding the promotion. Glad I'm not the only one that picked up on that.
What it's really about …
Your last article "Chaotic Time for PRIDE Culminates in Night of Upsets" focused a lot on how the upsets could possibly affect Pride as a business. I appreciate the argument — with two of Pride's biggest names suffering losses last night, one could conclude that Pride is screwed now. But I'm a huge fan of MMA and I came away thinking that was an awesome show — one of the best Pride events I've seen. In the end it should be about the fighters and the performance they bring to the show. It should be about champions wanting to fight the best competition. It should not be about one organization trying to protect their big name fighters by feeding them chumps. If someone comes in and delivers an upset or two like we saw last night, great! That will happen eventually no matter the organization. Give the former champions a chance for redemption and let them go at it again. And if again they lose — well then there will be no denying now that there's a new big name to promote. – Jonah, Honolulu, HI
Now why is that so hard for others to see? (BTW, I don't think I was overly harping on the upset factor as it pertained to PRIDE's business. Any promoter banking on a result for future business is going to have more than its fair share of disappointments. This should always be known as the Joe Silva Rule.)
Second chance to make a huge impression
Three fights come to mind as the most exciting I have seen in this last year:
Rush destroying Hughes.
Silva destroying Franklin.
And now the Diaz Gomi fight. Awesome, just an awesome fight!!!! I have always been a big Diaz fan and think his personality is as interesting as his fighting. The UFC made a mistake by cutting him loose. As young as he is, he will get better in the future, and even if he is never champ, he will always be an exciting fighter to watch.
The UFC seems to have two things they let fighters do. Either you are hot and on the road to challenge the title RIGHT NOW, or you are relegated to a gate keeper. If you don't fit those two molds, you are dumped.
I don't agree with this approach and think guys like Diaz and Karo are exciting even if they never make a run for the title. The UFC spends a lot of time trying to find exciting new talent, yet they are so fickle that if fighter loses a couple in a row, they are no longer title contenders and so they are dumped.
Me? I am happy the UFC dumped Diaz. The Gomi fight would have never happened otherwise.
That was an awesome fight. – No Name Given
I'm a big "winning matters" guy. Considering this sport can be so damn demanding and the slightest mistake can cost a fighter, there has to be some slack.
Yes Diaz has five losses, but he's only 23! By the time he's 27 he may have 10 L's, yet that might be when he's ready to be a major champion.
With no real amateur mixed martial arts in the U.S., fighters are baptized under fire. And so a loss here or there really shouldn't be too penal, particularly if they're as exciting as the guys you mentioned.
(And you're right: it was a great fight to watch.)
Screemy Meemy
Something needs to be said about this: PRIDE's screaming lady is absolutely annoying! Please put the word out that this stuff needs to go. It doesn't translate well to the US audience. Other than that — Pride 33 rocked!! One of the best MMA shows I've seen. – Jonah, Honolulu, HI
It's weird. In Japan, inside a giant building, the whole screaming lady thing seems to work. Inside Thomas & Mack I couldn't cover my ears fast enough. Just one nuance that works overseas, but not here — for me at least.
