A Talk with ‘Twinkle Toes’
Mike Sloan Dec 14, 2007
Frank Trigg (Pictures) has a newfound fire fueling Phase
Two of his professional fighting career. Saturday in Dallas, the
once-retired mixed martial artist will try to not only continue his
comeback after a brief hiatus from punishing opponents but also
bounce back from a thrilling knockout loss.
Trigg is co-headlining Dec. 15's HDNet Fights card (HDNet, 8 p.m. ET) against young lion and "Ultimate Fighter" alum Edwin Dewees (Pictures).
Sherdog.com recently caught up with Trigg (15-6) to see where the
35-year-old middleweight stands, and how he believes Mark Cuban's
fight organization will fare.
Sherdog.com: Frank, you are fighting on Saturday's HDNet card. Tell me how it is to fight for this new company compared to the many others that you've fought for before.
Trigg: I'll have to be honest with you; it's about time that somebody actually understands sports franchising, especially here with the MMA game, and (will) try to do something with it. Obviously Mark Cuban is famous for broadcast.com and then he moved on to owning the Mavericks, and now he's doing the fights. He gets how it is to be a sports franchise owner and with this, he's actually still learning. What he wants to do is build a bonfire where he'll have a huge conglomerate of fights, but he has to start off slow. He has to start off with a little kindling, a little straw, to get this thing moving. So he's starting off small, which is very smart on his part. He needs to make sure that everything is going to go OK and that everything is going to run smoothly.
Trigg: Well, he's very good because if there's something he doesn't understand, he finds other people who can teach him. He told me the other day that when he first bought the Mavericks, he didn't know how to be a franchise owner and that he didn't understand most of what it entailed -- it was just basketball. He said that he didn't sell many tickets to the games when he first bought them and that they weren't the best team. It took a while before things started to get going.
With the fights, he is doing the same thing by starting slow and hiring the right guys, like a good CEO and an excellent matchmaker who knows the sport. So he had to go and bring these people in to teach him and make him understand the sport and with the event, how things actually work. And that's what makes a great leader. A great leader jumps into great ideas, but he always brings people in who actually know what's going on, so he can learn.
Sherdog.com: With that said, how long do you think it will be before Cuban and his HDNet Fights actually take off and become a success and a monster in the fight game? What kind of timeline do you give this?
Trigg: That's really a subjective question, and it's really difficult to answer because it depends on what you consider a "success" or what you consider "taking off." In his second show in the American Airlines Arena, it was doing about 7,500 people and about 5,000 of those were paid tickets. That's success considering that it was only his second time around. And also with HDNet being in many millions of homes and if 60 million people watch it, then that's a huge success.
But I'll tell you this: I think around this time next year, we'll have a good yardstick where we can measure ourselves and kind of see where we are and what's going on. Then we can see if we're successful or not. But to get guys like Jason "Mayhem" Miller, Edwin Dewees (Pictures), Tim Kennedy (Pictures) and Frank Trigg (Pictures) as your main event fighters in your second show, that's a feat in and of itself. That's a huge deal, and he'll definitely get the bigger names in future cards.
Sherdog.com: Speaking of HDNet and getting good fighters, and this is kind of off topic, the company picked up you. You've always been one of the top welterweights of this era, but for reasons that I honestly don't know, you've never really caught on and got that kind of recognition and popularity that guys like Matt Hughes (Pictures) and B.J. Penn (Pictures) got. Why do you think that is and how confident are you that HDNet can make the name "Frank Trigg (Pictures)" into something huge?
Trigg: Well, you see what happens is that B.J. Penn (Pictures) was the champ at one point. He beat Matt Hughes (Pictures) and got popular and, of course, he was on the reality show. And then you look at Matt Hughes (Pictures) who was one of the most dominating champs that ever was for the UFC, and that's why he is so popular. It's funny because the reason why Mayweather-Hatton was such a huge boxing event was because both guys were undefeated at the time and who were hugely popular. If you were at the MGM Grand, you would have been able to see all these Englishmen flying overseas to watch Hatton fight. Most of the crowd was English cheering for Hatton, and these guys like Mayweather and Hatton win. That's why they are so famous.
This sport is about winning. The reason why everybody is on the Patriots' jock right now is because they're undefeated. Everybody is on the Dallas Cowboys' jock because they only got one loss. People like winners, and that's what happened with Hughes and Penn and how they got their success. My most famous fights are the ones I lost, the ones against Hughes and St. Pierre. Those fights are the reasons why people know me, but I lost those fights. Well, people can't get behind a loser, so for me to get the same type of popularity here at HDNet Fights, (the plan) is to keep winning.
Sherdog.com: And in your upcoming fight you are set to take on Edwin Dewees (Pictures). He's always been one of those fighters who has had plenty of talent, but for various reasons, whether it is age or relative inexperience in big fights, he never has been able to take that next step up. It seems like whenever he's right there, right on the bubble, about to make it big, he slips up and has to start over. Why do you think this is? Is it because he's still a young kid or is it maybe that Edwin just might not have "it" in him? Or is it something else?
Trigg: I'm one of those guys that believes that anything you want to do, you can become great at. If you train and work hard enough at it, you'll become great. I think a lot of these guys have too many distractions. Guys like Chuck Liddell (Pictures) are very famous and is on "Entourage," and Randy Couture (Pictures) is in these movies and getting all these endorsements. Some of these fighters want that and wonder why they don't get the same sort of star treatment as Liddell and Randy, and they start to lose focus and think about the wrong kind of crap. They forget that the reason why Chuck and Randy have all this is because they are great and they are winning and they are successful because they've become champions.
People get tied up in this mentality of, "Why am I not getting the big payday?" or "Why am I not getting these endorsements or movie roles?" when they should be focusing on their training. I used to get caught up in that and I realized that the way to become this successful, famous fighter is to become a great fighter. You need to learn not to get distracted by outside things. With Edwin, it seems to me like he's had a lot of distractions.
Sherdog.com: If that's the case, then I believe if he can become fully focused at all times, he can become a world-class fighter. Do you agree with me?
Trigg: I do. I think he can become a world-class, elite fighter as long as he trains and remains focused. But you also have to keep in mind that I don't train with the kid, so I don't know if he's lazy or not lazy, determined or not determined. You know, does he not show up for practice and when he does, does he show up to learn some thing new? I don't train with him, so I really don't even know.
Sherdog.com: Why are you fighting, by the way? I thought you said to me after the St. Pierre fight, I believe, that you were thinking about retiring.
Trigg: (interrupting) Actually I did retire. Once I lost to Carlos Condit (Pictures), I was like, "That's it. I'm done." I didn't want to fight anymore and I couldn't make the weight anymore at 170. I didn't have that passion to train anymore and I kind of wanted to do other things. At that time I had been training full time for nine years and I just needed to step away for a while. I needed a break because I never took a day off. I never had a vacation and I was living paycheck to paycheck. I backed away and took about eight months off.
So, naturally, I went from my natural weight of about 190 and I blew up to 230 from lying on the couch. After that I decided that I wanted to come back, and they offered me Jason Miller. That was it for me because I've always wanted to fight him, and I got that hunger back and got back into the game. Also I moved from L.A. to Vegas and went into Xtreme Couture, finally got my pro belt in jiu-jitsu from John Lewis (Pictures), and I just wanted to learn about all sorts of new stuff. It really worked out well for me; it was nice.
Sherdog.com: And then you fought Robbie Lawler (Pictures). Walk us through the aftermath of that fight.
Trigg: Well, I got knocked out, so I had to sit down and heal up. When I fought Lawler, I basically had been in a continuous training camp for four months. Five months when I fought Lawler. I fought Miller, then my next fight got cancelled and I never stopped training because the Lawler fight was the following month. So I never stopped training, and by the time I fought Lawler, I was too exhausted and I couldn't move well because I wasn't fully healed. That's it, really.
Sherdog.com: Not trying to goad you into any trash talk, but what are your thoughts on Edwin? He's always come off like a good kid and he's obviously a solid fighter.
Trigg: He's an anomaly to me because he's a young kid; he's only 25. He's faster, stronger, taller, bigger. He comes in much heavier than me. He's a better guy on the ground than I am, and he's way more experienced than I am. On paper, everything suggests that he should win, but I don't think he has that heart or determination that he needs to be a great fighter. Plus I'm a better athlete, I'm much better looking and I'm four times smarter than he is (laughs).
Sherdog.com: (laughs) Oh geez. How do you see this fight unfolding, if I dare even ask such a question?
Trigg: I don't think it'll get out of the first round. I think I've got too much cardio for him, I'm too strong and I think I'll just go out there and bang him out and beat him up a little bit.
Trigg is co-headlining Dec. 15's HDNet Fights card (HDNet, 8 p.m. ET) against young lion and "Ultimate Fighter" alum Edwin Dewees (Pictures).
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Sherdog.com: Frank, you are fighting on Saturday's HDNet card. Tell me how it is to fight for this new company compared to the many others that you've fought for before.
Trigg: I'll have to be honest with you; it's about time that somebody actually understands sports franchising, especially here with the MMA game, and (will) try to do something with it. Obviously Mark Cuban is famous for broadcast.com and then he moved on to owning the Mavericks, and now he's doing the fights. He gets how it is to be a sports franchise owner and with this, he's actually still learning. What he wants to do is build a bonfire where he'll have a huge conglomerate of fights, but he has to start off slow. He has to start off with a little kindling, a little straw, to get this thing moving. So he's starting off small, which is very smart on his part. He needs to make sure that everything is going to go OK and that everything is going to run smoothly.
Sherdog.com: Obviously Cuban is a
billionaire; he owns an NBA team. But how well do you think he
truly knows the fight game, in particular mixed martial arts? How
well do you think he can do with this sport?
Trigg: Well, he's very good because if there's something he doesn't understand, he finds other people who can teach him. He told me the other day that when he first bought the Mavericks, he didn't know how to be a franchise owner and that he didn't understand most of what it entailed -- it was just basketball. He said that he didn't sell many tickets to the games when he first bought them and that they weren't the best team. It took a while before things started to get going.
With the fights, he is doing the same thing by starting slow and hiring the right guys, like a good CEO and an excellent matchmaker who knows the sport. So he had to go and bring these people in to teach him and make him understand the sport and with the event, how things actually work. And that's what makes a great leader. A great leader jumps into great ideas, but he always brings people in who actually know what's going on, so he can learn.
Sherdog.com: With that said, how long do you think it will be before Cuban and his HDNet Fights actually take off and become a success and a monster in the fight game? What kind of timeline do you give this?
Trigg: That's really a subjective question, and it's really difficult to answer because it depends on what you consider a "success" or what you consider "taking off." In his second show in the American Airlines Arena, it was doing about 7,500 people and about 5,000 of those were paid tickets. That's success considering that it was only his second time around. And also with HDNet being in many millions of homes and if 60 million people watch it, then that's a huge success.
But I'll tell you this: I think around this time next year, we'll have a good yardstick where we can measure ourselves and kind of see where we are and what's going on. Then we can see if we're successful or not. But to get guys like Jason "Mayhem" Miller, Edwin Dewees (Pictures), Tim Kennedy (Pictures) and Frank Trigg (Pictures) as your main event fighters in your second show, that's a feat in and of itself. That's a huge deal, and he'll definitely get the bigger names in future cards.
Sherdog.com: Speaking of HDNet and getting good fighters, and this is kind of off topic, the company picked up you. You've always been one of the top welterweights of this era, but for reasons that I honestly don't know, you've never really caught on and got that kind of recognition and popularity that guys like Matt Hughes (Pictures) and B.J. Penn (Pictures) got. Why do you think that is and how confident are you that HDNet can make the name "Frank Trigg (Pictures)" into something huge?
Trigg: Well, you see what happens is that B.J. Penn (Pictures) was the champ at one point. He beat Matt Hughes (Pictures) and got popular and, of course, he was on the reality show. And then you look at Matt Hughes (Pictures) who was one of the most dominating champs that ever was for the UFC, and that's why he is so popular. It's funny because the reason why Mayweather-Hatton was such a huge boxing event was because both guys were undefeated at the time and who were hugely popular. If you were at the MGM Grand, you would have been able to see all these Englishmen flying overseas to watch Hatton fight. Most of the crowd was English cheering for Hatton, and these guys like Mayweather and Hatton win. That's why they are so famous.
This sport is about winning. The reason why everybody is on the Patriots' jock right now is because they're undefeated. Everybody is on the Dallas Cowboys' jock because they only got one loss. People like winners, and that's what happened with Hughes and Penn and how they got their success. My most famous fights are the ones I lost, the ones against Hughes and St. Pierre. Those fights are the reasons why people know me, but I lost those fights. Well, people can't get behind a loser, so for me to get the same type of popularity here at HDNet Fights, (the plan) is to keep winning.
Sherdog.com: And in your upcoming fight you are set to take on Edwin Dewees (Pictures). He's always been one of those fighters who has had plenty of talent, but for various reasons, whether it is age or relative inexperience in big fights, he never has been able to take that next step up. It seems like whenever he's right there, right on the bubble, about to make it big, he slips up and has to start over. Why do you think this is? Is it because he's still a young kid or is it maybe that Edwin just might not have "it" in him? Or is it something else?
Trigg: I'm one of those guys that believes that anything you want to do, you can become great at. If you train and work hard enough at it, you'll become great. I think a lot of these guys have too many distractions. Guys like Chuck Liddell (Pictures) are very famous and is on "Entourage," and Randy Couture (Pictures) is in these movies and getting all these endorsements. Some of these fighters want that and wonder why they don't get the same sort of star treatment as Liddell and Randy, and they start to lose focus and think about the wrong kind of crap. They forget that the reason why Chuck and Randy have all this is because they are great and they are winning and they are successful because they've become champions.
People get tied up in this mentality of, "Why am I not getting the big payday?" or "Why am I not getting these endorsements or movie roles?" when they should be focusing on their training. I used to get caught up in that and I realized that the way to become this successful, famous fighter is to become a great fighter. You need to learn not to get distracted by outside things. With Edwin, it seems to me like he's had a lot of distractions.
Sherdog.com: If that's the case, then I believe if he can become fully focused at all times, he can become a world-class fighter. Do you agree with me?
Trigg: I do. I think he can become a world-class, elite fighter as long as he trains and remains focused. But you also have to keep in mind that I don't train with the kid, so I don't know if he's lazy or not lazy, determined or not determined. You know, does he not show up for practice and when he does, does he show up to learn some thing new? I don't train with him, so I really don't even know.
Sherdog.com: Why are you fighting, by the way? I thought you said to me after the St. Pierre fight, I believe, that you were thinking about retiring.
Trigg: (interrupting) Actually I did retire. Once I lost to Carlos Condit (Pictures), I was like, "That's it. I'm done." I didn't want to fight anymore and I couldn't make the weight anymore at 170. I didn't have that passion to train anymore and I kind of wanted to do other things. At that time I had been training full time for nine years and I just needed to step away for a while. I needed a break because I never took a day off. I never had a vacation and I was living paycheck to paycheck. I backed away and took about eight months off.
So, naturally, I went from my natural weight of about 190 and I blew up to 230 from lying on the couch. After that I decided that I wanted to come back, and they offered me Jason Miller. That was it for me because I've always wanted to fight him, and I got that hunger back and got back into the game. Also I moved from L.A. to Vegas and went into Xtreme Couture, finally got my pro belt in jiu-jitsu from John Lewis (Pictures), and I just wanted to learn about all sorts of new stuff. It really worked out well for me; it was nice.
Sherdog.com: And then you fought Robbie Lawler (Pictures). Walk us through the aftermath of that fight.
Trigg: Well, I got knocked out, so I had to sit down and heal up. When I fought Lawler, I basically had been in a continuous training camp for four months. Five months when I fought Lawler. I fought Miller, then my next fight got cancelled and I never stopped training because the Lawler fight was the following month. So I never stopped training, and by the time I fought Lawler, I was too exhausted and I couldn't move well because I wasn't fully healed. That's it, really.
Sherdog.com: Not trying to goad you into any trash talk, but what are your thoughts on Edwin? He's always come off like a good kid and he's obviously a solid fighter.
Trigg: He's an anomaly to me because he's a young kid; he's only 25. He's faster, stronger, taller, bigger. He comes in much heavier than me. He's a better guy on the ground than I am, and he's way more experienced than I am. On paper, everything suggests that he should win, but I don't think he has that heart or determination that he needs to be a great fighter. Plus I'm a better athlete, I'm much better looking and I'm four times smarter than he is (laughs).
Sherdog.com: (laughs) Oh geez. How do you see this fight unfolding, if I dare even ask such a question?
Trigg: I don't think it'll get out of the first round. I think I've got too much cardio for him, I'm too strong and I think I'll just go out there and bang him out and beat him up a little bit.
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