Cage Rage Promoter Discusses Growth of UK MMA
As mixed martial arts continues to expand its fan following around
the world, Cage Rage co-promoter Andy Geer and his team are
spearheading the growth of the sport in the UK.
In a few short years, the promotion has progressed from its original home of Caesar's nightclub in Streatham, moving on to sell-out the massive Wembley Arena in North London.
With just less than a week to go before the 20th Cage Rage card, Geer shared his thoughts on the upcoming event, development of MMA in the UK, and the up-coming UFC invasion of Manchester's MEN arena in April.
Sherdog.com: Cage Rage came from humble beginnings. You're now filling out massive arenas. Why do you think that the sport has kicked off so much over the last two or three years?
Andy Geer: It's the greatest sport in the world. Dave [O'Donnell] and I did promote this from a sportsman's point of view and this came out of the gym. Neither of us are fighters; we're both way too old to be fighters. We developed Cage Rage around training, not a business model — it did turn into one after a few shows and I think that the entertainment, the crowd and the fighters that we always put first before any profits or anything like that.
We're all successful businessmen away from Cage Rage, so we've been lucky enough to be able to afford to take the gamble. I put a lot of the success down to the UFC of course. With the success that they've had with The Ultimate Fighter and their pay-per-view now and I think that the waves are going out around the world. We've worked hard over here ourselves and it will get a lot, lot bigger over the next couple of years, that's for sure.
Sherdog.com: You've also got these affiliated shows springing up. Who are you working with on all those projects?
Geer: It's a group of individual promoters who were promoting under different names. We put the invitation out. Some took it. Some didn't. Some were suspicious of us. But people who know us, they know there is nothing to be suspicious about. Our name, because of the TV exposure we get through Sky, from Nuts magazine and all the TV advertising budgets we've got now, our name is getting very well known over here. All we're doing is offering people to share our name and it helps legitimize it in their local boroughs — but on the understanding that they promote in a safe and responsible manner, making sure that the match-ups are fair and you haven't got a first timer going up against a 25-timer, and making sure the officials are experienced enough. It's just another thing to help push the sport into more of a mainstream area really.
Sherdog.com: You mentioned before the UFC and the global impact they've had. It seems they've picked a bit of an awkward date, coming over on 21st April — a long-standing Cage Rage date. How do you feel about that?
Geer: I've got to say, I'm a little bit disappointed. I mean, I've met with Dana White and the Fertitta brothers who own Zuffa, and we had a nice long chat for a couple of hours — and we said this: we'll do everything we can. We're not going to stand in the way of the UFC, they are the biggest organization in the world. Let's be realistic, we don't want to fight each other over ticket sales; we don't want to outbid each other for fighters and so on … so let's just agree to talk and I'll do whatever I can. They went away and not another word was spoken (laughs).
They'll do what they want and, yes, I'd be surprised if they haven't done it on purpose. Put it that way, but I'm not worried. I think they are going to get more of a shock in the UK than they realize — it's a very, very tough market over here. And 80 percent of our audience have been built up over four years and they're Cage Rage fans, not necessarily UFC fans. And we're confident that we've got a very, very big card for April 21st — of course until we've signed contracts, I'm not going to say who it is, before you ask (laughs).
Sherdog.com: Are there any personal antagonisms as a result of all this?
Geer: No, it's nothing more than I expected really; they are just doing business. I'm not in the slightest bit surprised. I'm a little disappointed, but at least now I know where I stand. We're just going to carry on and do our own thing. There's no real firm plans for them to do any more than one show over here at the moment. I hear a lot of rumors, but I've been hearing rumors in the industry for years now — and most of them don't come true.
We're just going to take it one step at a time. It's a shame they've decided to do it on the same day, because a lot of hardcore fans are going to miss out on one or the other, but overall, apart from a few hundred people, I don't think it's going to affect us too much.
Sherdog.com: Moving on to your Cage Rage 20 card: which match-ups are you looking forward to the most?
Geer: It's got to be “Butterbean” and James Thompson (Pictures), for me. It's just going to be such a fantastic tear up at the end of the night. But I suppose the most important domestic one has got to be Rob Broughton (Pictures) and Tengiz [Tedoradze], because Rob Broughton (Pictures) always seems to be an underdog. But this is the true test. If he beats Tengiz, no one can say, “Oh, he's had a fluke win there, little bit of luck there.” I don't think he can be the true champ until he beats Tengiz, that's for sure.
Then there's Ronnie Mann and Ashleigh Grimshaw. Did you see the first fight they had? What an absolute war that was. There's that one I'm looking forward to, and of course Mark Kerr (Pictures). Looking forward to Mark Kerr (Pictures). His team are saying he's in the best shape of his life at the moment — this isn't an old has-been that's coming over. This is a more experienced, more aggressive, harder training Mark Kerr (Pictures), because now he wants to throw himself right back into the mainstream of MMA and it's good he's come over again to prove himself again. He's not here to pick up a fat paycheck and go home again. And Mustapha [al Turk] is a real dark horse as well. We've got a great heavyweight division at the moment and it's about to get better … “he hinted again” (laughs).
Sherdog.com: I've got to ask about Dave Legeno (Pictures). A lot of fans have criticized his appearance on the Cage Rage main show. What would you like to say to the critics?
Geer: You know, he's starting to prove himself. He came to us as an out-and-out entertainer. If I could just back up a little bit. We've followed more the PRIDE influence in MMA more than, shall we say, the UFC influence. We've had a few open-weight fights and we do really heavily on entertaining the crowds and we make some great TV. So Dave Legeno (Pictures), to us, is a great, great fighter. He's very entertaining with his interviews and ring entrances and he took some real hard fights. Dave is working really hard at the moment and he's really improving. I don't think he should have fought Mark Epstein (Pictures) myself, but he got a legitimate win over Kimo and he got a legitimate win over his old nemesis, Alan Mudoch — not a world class win, but it was still a good win. This, again, is a true test for him.
When we spoke to Dave Legeno (Pictures), he doesn't want a fight he knows he can win. He wants a fight that he's almost certainly going to lose.
Sherdog.com: Mr. ‘Deathwish.'
Geer: Yeah, that's why he changed his nickname. Now, people can criticize him all they like, but he trains real hard. He flies over to America and trains with Don Frye (Pictures) and he's really improving as a fighter and as a wrestler now. There's always people who have a lot of criticisms about the things we do but the fact is, you know you're going to see a great fight when Dave Legeno (Pictures)'s in the cage. He's very entertaining. He's very popular. And most of Wembley Arena are chanting his name when he gets in there.
Sherdog.com: I just noticed that Matt Lindland (Pictures) got a guillotine victory over Carlos Newton (Pictures). Is there any chance we might see him back in Cage Rage in the future?
Geer: Thanks for that. I didn't know that, but I'm not surprised (laughs). I would love to get Matt back, but he's getting so many offers at the moment. I'm still in contact with Matt, but he's getting so many big money offers. He's trying not to fight exclusively for anybody, but there's so much money out there in MMA right now. We've made some nice links with Bodog now, and I know that he's going to be fighting for them shortly … but we're always talking to Matt.
Sherdog.com: I have to ask — a lot has been said on the Internet — are there any problems between Cage Rage and the Cage Warriors promotions?
Geer: (laughs) I've been asked this so many times. I don't read the Internet forums. I just read the news on Sherdog. That's the only place you are going to get any real news. But now and again, Dave rings me up and says, “You've got to go and have a read of 'Cage Warriors' what they are saying here, what they are saying there.” I used to like going on the Cage Warriors forum, but they've said a lot of very strange things that I'm not even going to dignify with an answer. All I will say is that I don't post on there under a false name, despite what they say — never have. There's no problem, because I really don't see them as being any form of competition, just a little bit of a nuisance sometimes, that's all. But that's about it. It's such a shame that it had to go this way, but it wasn't through our doing that's for certain. I don't go in for gossip on the Internet with 'Internet Warriors,’ as Dave likes to call them.
There's a lot of promotions out there. I work behind the scenes on some of the smallest shows out there to make sure they are safe and well organized, for no other reason; we don't take any of the glory. We help as many people out with matchmaking as we can. I've even helped financially with some promotions. I've even been an MC on some promotions, anything to help the sport and get it off the ground. The only thing that is dragging this sport back down into the gutter are the Internet people who just want to bicker and snipe and fight each other on the forums. The sooner that they all grow up, the sooner that this sport will become more mainstream.
Sherdog.com: One last question, what have you got coming up for the year — is there anything you can let out of the bag at this stage?
Geer: We've got massive plans. We've got some new sponsors just on the verge of signing. We've got a lot of TV deals on the verge of signing. Looks like we should get some real mainstream TV coverage soon. The national papers are covering this next event. We got the Star, the Sun, the Mirror, the Independent and the Express who are sending their sports writers to cover Cage Rage 20.
Sherdog.com: That's a big deal.
Geer: That is a very big deal, and that's not our PR people asking them. They've now realized that MMA outsells boxing. Last time we were at Earl's Court, we outsold Frank Warren's boxing promotion that was at Excel. So there's a lot of attention coming our way very soon and we're in negotiations to sign some big names that would compete with any of the top shows in the world. So, yeah, it's onwards and upwards. We've still got our backers, still got our sponsors and we've still got our full time team working behind us putting these shows together. The UFC coming over here will do the whole British scene the power of good — it will bring the sport to more people's attention and when they're gone, we're all still here. It can only be a good thing.
In a few short years, the promotion has progressed from its original home of Caesar's nightclub in Streatham, moving on to sell-out the massive Wembley Arena in North London.
With just less than a week to go before the 20th Cage Rage card, Geer shared his thoughts on the upcoming event, development of MMA in the UK, and the up-coming UFC invasion of Manchester's MEN arena in April.
Sherdog.com: Cage Rage came from humble beginnings. You're now filling out massive arenas. Why do you think that the sport has kicked off so much over the last two or three years?
Andy Geer: It's the greatest sport in the world. Dave [O'Donnell] and I did promote this from a sportsman's point of view and this came out of the gym. Neither of us are fighters; we're both way too old to be fighters. We developed Cage Rage around training, not a business model — it did turn into one after a few shows and I think that the entertainment, the crowd and the fighters that we always put first before any profits or anything like that.
We're all successful businessmen away from Cage Rage, so we've been lucky enough to be able to afford to take the gamble. I put a lot of the success down to the UFC of course. With the success that they've had with The Ultimate Fighter and their pay-per-view now and I think that the waves are going out around the world. We've worked hard over here ourselves and it will get a lot, lot bigger over the next couple of years, that's for sure.
Sherdog.com: You've also got these affiliated shows springing up. Who are you working with on all those projects?
Geer: It's a group of individual promoters who were promoting under different names. We put the invitation out. Some took it. Some didn't. Some were suspicious of us. But people who know us, they know there is nothing to be suspicious about. Our name, because of the TV exposure we get through Sky, from Nuts magazine and all the TV advertising budgets we've got now, our name is getting very well known over here. All we're doing is offering people to share our name and it helps legitimize it in their local boroughs — but on the understanding that they promote in a safe and responsible manner, making sure that the match-ups are fair and you haven't got a first timer going up against a 25-timer, and making sure the officials are experienced enough. It's just another thing to help push the sport into more of a mainstream area really.
Sherdog.com: You mentioned before the UFC and the global impact they've had. It seems they've picked a bit of an awkward date, coming over on 21st April — a long-standing Cage Rage date. How do you feel about that?
Geer: I've got to say, I'm a little bit disappointed. I mean, I've met with Dana White and the Fertitta brothers who own Zuffa, and we had a nice long chat for a couple of hours — and we said this: we'll do everything we can. We're not going to stand in the way of the UFC, they are the biggest organization in the world. Let's be realistic, we don't want to fight each other over ticket sales; we don't want to outbid each other for fighters and so on … so let's just agree to talk and I'll do whatever I can. They went away and not another word was spoken (laughs).
They'll do what they want and, yes, I'd be surprised if they haven't done it on purpose. Put it that way, but I'm not worried. I think they are going to get more of a shock in the UK than they realize — it's a very, very tough market over here. And 80 percent of our audience have been built up over four years and they're Cage Rage fans, not necessarily UFC fans. And we're confident that we've got a very, very big card for April 21st — of course until we've signed contracts, I'm not going to say who it is, before you ask (laughs).
Sherdog.com: Are there any personal antagonisms as a result of all this?
Geer: No, it's nothing more than I expected really; they are just doing business. I'm not in the slightest bit surprised. I'm a little disappointed, but at least now I know where I stand. We're just going to carry on and do our own thing. There's no real firm plans for them to do any more than one show over here at the moment. I hear a lot of rumors, but I've been hearing rumors in the industry for years now — and most of them don't come true.
We're just going to take it one step at a time. It's a shame they've decided to do it on the same day, because a lot of hardcore fans are going to miss out on one or the other, but overall, apart from a few hundred people, I don't think it's going to affect us too much.
Sherdog.com: Moving on to your Cage Rage 20 card: which match-ups are you looking forward to the most?
Geer: It's got to be “Butterbean” and James Thompson (Pictures), for me. It's just going to be such a fantastic tear up at the end of the night. But I suppose the most important domestic one has got to be Rob Broughton (Pictures) and Tengiz [Tedoradze], because Rob Broughton (Pictures) always seems to be an underdog. But this is the true test. If he beats Tengiz, no one can say, “Oh, he's had a fluke win there, little bit of luck there.” I don't think he can be the true champ until he beats Tengiz, that's for sure.
Then there's Ronnie Mann and Ashleigh Grimshaw. Did you see the first fight they had? What an absolute war that was. There's that one I'm looking forward to, and of course Mark Kerr (Pictures). Looking forward to Mark Kerr (Pictures). His team are saying he's in the best shape of his life at the moment — this isn't an old has-been that's coming over. This is a more experienced, more aggressive, harder training Mark Kerr (Pictures), because now he wants to throw himself right back into the mainstream of MMA and it's good he's come over again to prove himself again. He's not here to pick up a fat paycheck and go home again. And Mustapha [al Turk] is a real dark horse as well. We've got a great heavyweight division at the moment and it's about to get better … “he hinted again” (laughs).
Sherdog.com: I've got to ask about Dave Legeno (Pictures). A lot of fans have criticized his appearance on the Cage Rage main show. What would you like to say to the critics?
Geer: You know, he's starting to prove himself. He came to us as an out-and-out entertainer. If I could just back up a little bit. We've followed more the PRIDE influence in MMA more than, shall we say, the UFC influence. We've had a few open-weight fights and we do really heavily on entertaining the crowds and we make some great TV. So Dave Legeno (Pictures), to us, is a great, great fighter. He's very entertaining with his interviews and ring entrances and he took some real hard fights. Dave is working really hard at the moment and he's really improving. I don't think he should have fought Mark Epstein (Pictures) myself, but he got a legitimate win over Kimo and he got a legitimate win over his old nemesis, Alan Mudoch — not a world class win, but it was still a good win. This, again, is a true test for him.
When we spoke to Dave Legeno (Pictures), he doesn't want a fight he knows he can win. He wants a fight that he's almost certainly going to lose.
Sherdog.com: Mr. ‘Deathwish.'
Geer: Yeah, that's why he changed his nickname. Now, people can criticize him all they like, but he trains real hard. He flies over to America and trains with Don Frye (Pictures) and he's really improving as a fighter and as a wrestler now. There's always people who have a lot of criticisms about the things we do but the fact is, you know you're going to see a great fight when Dave Legeno (Pictures)'s in the cage. He's very entertaining. He's very popular. And most of Wembley Arena are chanting his name when he gets in there.
Sherdog.com: I just noticed that Matt Lindland (Pictures) got a guillotine victory over Carlos Newton (Pictures). Is there any chance we might see him back in Cage Rage in the future?
Geer: Thanks for that. I didn't know that, but I'm not surprised (laughs). I would love to get Matt back, but he's getting so many offers at the moment. I'm still in contact with Matt, but he's getting so many big money offers. He's trying not to fight exclusively for anybody, but there's so much money out there in MMA right now. We've made some nice links with Bodog now, and I know that he's going to be fighting for them shortly … but we're always talking to Matt.
Sherdog.com: I have to ask — a lot has been said on the Internet — are there any problems between Cage Rage and the Cage Warriors promotions?
Geer: (laughs) I've been asked this so many times. I don't read the Internet forums. I just read the news on Sherdog. That's the only place you are going to get any real news. But now and again, Dave rings me up and says, “You've got to go and have a read of 'Cage Warriors' what they are saying here, what they are saying there.” I used to like going on the Cage Warriors forum, but they've said a lot of very strange things that I'm not even going to dignify with an answer. All I will say is that I don't post on there under a false name, despite what they say — never have. There's no problem, because I really don't see them as being any form of competition, just a little bit of a nuisance sometimes, that's all. But that's about it. It's such a shame that it had to go this way, but it wasn't through our doing that's for certain. I don't go in for gossip on the Internet with 'Internet Warriors,’ as Dave likes to call them.
There's a lot of promotions out there. I work behind the scenes on some of the smallest shows out there to make sure they are safe and well organized, for no other reason; we don't take any of the glory. We help as many people out with matchmaking as we can. I've even helped financially with some promotions. I've even been an MC on some promotions, anything to help the sport and get it off the ground. The only thing that is dragging this sport back down into the gutter are the Internet people who just want to bicker and snipe and fight each other on the forums. The sooner that they all grow up, the sooner that this sport will become more mainstream.
Sherdog.com: One last question, what have you got coming up for the year — is there anything you can let out of the bag at this stage?
Geer: We've got massive plans. We've got some new sponsors just on the verge of signing. We've got a lot of TV deals on the verge of signing. Looks like we should get some real mainstream TV coverage soon. The national papers are covering this next event. We got the Star, the Sun, the Mirror, the Independent and the Express who are sending their sports writers to cover Cage Rage 20.
Sherdog.com: That's a big deal.
Geer: That is a very big deal, and that's not our PR people asking them. They've now realized that MMA outsells boxing. Last time we were at Earl's Court, we outsold Frank Warren's boxing promotion that was at Excel. So there's a lot of attention coming our way very soon and we're in negotiations to sign some big names that would compete with any of the top shows in the world. So, yeah, it's onwards and upwards. We've still got our backers, still got our sponsors and we've still got our full time team working behind us putting these shows together. The UFC coming over here will do the whole British scene the power of good — it will bring the sport to more people's attention and when they're gone, we're all still here. It can only be a good thing.
